Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions

@enarü The wonderland is imagination. Entirely. People typically imagine the same world repeatedly and call it a specific 'wonderland', but it doesn't have to stay the same either. Typically, 'visualization' is more a matter of having a sense of where everything is relative to you, and holding the knowledge of what it would look like were you actually seeing it as an active thought in your head.

1:20 AM

I will also point out that if you are looking for anything related to astral projection or other unsubstantiated magical claims, you may wish to look to the #metaphysics channel instead.

did they mention astral projection or something?

Yes.

1:21 AM

In this channel, you will receive psychologically-grounded explanations and advice.

Is that a server rule or something?

the server uses the same rules as the forum for the most part, and the forum has a "metaphysics goes in the metaphysics section" rule

Literally? No. But, there is a rule/guideline to not make unsubstantiated claims outside of #metaphysics, which is why psychologically-grounded explanations hold sway outside of the specific #metaphysics channel.

huh, so it's less an escape or a pressure release and more a quarentine (edited)

I understand, I just needed some clarification on the matter first, I'm simply taking apart the process piece by piece and meditating at least every night. Thank you for referring the channel of course, but I'm not quite there yet for astral projecting tbh

...I think you had a conversation about this in #server-discussion when that channel was created, @Reguile.

1:24 AM

Perhaps I'm misremembering.

1:24 AM

Alright.

probably, getting off topic

I think that was about whether to make it opt-in or opt-out

Indeed.

1:24 AM

@Srn347 There was also some discussion about the point of it existing in the first place.

Metaphysics isn't allowed in the #tulpa.info IRC channel and is only allowed in the off-topic channels to some extent, but seeing as we have a channel dedicated to the topic here it should stay there, ideally. But yes, anything about astral projection doesn't belong in here, although I don't think sea was pushing this discussion in that direction.

Well if'n I can toss my coin in the well, I don't make much use of my wonderland. I prickled everytime the word popped into my head. Although, when I first started forcing Nin9 I sucked up and made it. I did more than simply "visualized" the space. I immersed myself in it.

1:53 AM

Assuming everyone here can read, if you can't then what even are you, I'm also going to make the assumption that everyone here has read a good book, a good article, something that caused you to immerse yourself in whatever article of entertainment it was.

1:54 AM

Do that when you're doing the wonderland thing. Or you can do what I do. Be where you are and simply focus on your tulpa mentally. Try and picture their form waving about in and around in your immediate vicinity.

I already have a very clear vision of my tulpa, and how they behave when I 'visualize' them, I just haven't put actually intent in them

I am... loath to say this considering how long it's taking me to force Nin9, but I think that's one of the easier bits.

2:32 AM

You know how you interact with someone for a while and it becomes easier to predict what they're going to say or do?

2:32 AM

Well eventually, you're going to start doing that with your tulpa until it comes to a point where they're saying and doing things outside of your original input.

2:34 AM

First imagine what qualities and traits they'd have, which is easier when you can see a form for most people which is why it's recommended to think of a form first, what voice they'd have, the things they'd like, how their reactions to certain subjects would be.

2:35 AM

Then simply feed it into the form of your tulpa. Once you've got all of that down, guide your tulpa's consciousness to awaken to the personality "parameters" you've set.

how do you "guide" the tulpa really?

don't be surprised or upset if your tulpa if they don't met your expectations

2:38 AM

well mostly just interacting them in such a way that it encourages what you want to see in them

Basically like having a literal brainchild.

2:39 AM

Which is ironic if you don't like children.

they're kinda like raising a child that has access to your memories and thoughts and isn't held back by any physical development, they need time to their personality develop based on their experiences with you

2:40 AM

ehh they're more mature then children though, it's just a similar process raising them

2:40 AM

although I like both so maybe that's just bias talking

@enarü You don't "put intent" in a tulpa.

2:40 AM

What I recommend is giving them experience, since that naturally shapes personality.

basically just spend time with them and let them develop

That phrasing confuses me. How do you give a tulpa experience when there's a illusionary barrier between you?

In fact, it is demonstrable that experience is what develops a large portion of a person, and lack of experience and interaction prevents development or can even lead to mental atrophy.

happens at different rates for everyone and different skills will develop at different rates

@Jack o' Nin9's Speaking to a tulpa is giving them experience - interaction. Showing them the world around you is giving them experience by the same token.

reading to them and asking what they think about whatever your reading and the characters

In that case just talk to yourself. You know you're talking to you're tulpa, but that's what it'd look like on the outside.

Think of it this way - they have all the semantic knowledge of the world that you do, seeing as you share the same brain.

saying they have all the sematic knowledge you do isn't fully accurate in my experience but they do have access to all the knowledge you do

Ah - you're right, the correct term is semantic memory.

2:45 AM

Facts, such as the answer to "what is a banana?"

Well I don't know how I'd just "open my brain" like that but part of whatg made me so interested in tulpas is the assumption that they could get in touch with you on a subconscious level.

Giving them experience helps them develop the subjective context.

2:46 AM

...I'm not sure I understand - what do you mean by "get in touch with you on a subconscious level"?

The idea of making and shaping a person inside of you that will in turn help make and shape you is appealing.

they can feel your emotions leak over onto them and vice versa

Yes.

I like how the both of you didn't acknowledge my pun.

~~wait what pun, I am really bad at spoting puns~~

I didn't notice it.

2:48 AM

Apologies.

Ah it was a stretch anyway.

Truly, though - there have been debates on how much nature and nurture individually affect the personality and cognition of an individual, but no disagreement to my knowledge that the 'nurture' portion is significant and can have rather dramatic effects on thought processes and general capability.

2:51 AM

Continued stimulation helps cognition late in life, combatting degenerative diseases - minimal stimulation, such as passively watching a TV or (more dramatically) being deprived of external stimulus entirely, causes cognition to falter and the brain to panic if deprived to enough of an extent.

2:53 AM

My position on developing a tulpa stems from this - varied stimulation/experience develops them much the same way as normal cognition develops and sustains people's general cognition.

I've actually done a little research into it because of a school assignment debate thing I have coming up and there's very little evidence supporting nature ~~rip me for choosing it based on my partner and not the actual subject~~

I've gone on long enough to know that I can be a on either side of the spectrum when it comes to being good or bad on any level of relationships, so I don't know how I'll fare as an educator. I just know that if there's anything that Nin9 wants to know or pursue, they can feel free to pursue it.

@AmeLumineux As far as I'm aware, "nature" is effectively the groundwork for personality, and "nurture" is almost everything else built off of that groundwork.

2:54 AM

I like to use the analogy of a building - "nature", or biology, is the blueprint for the shape of the foundation, whereas "nurture" is actually building the structure. (edited)

Nature, to me, means little. I've spent plenty of time going with and fighting against my own. Nurture to me, means little. I've spent plenty of time dealing with two radically different ideologies on life. My thoughts on the matter is that everything begins with a choice. How YOU choose to act, what you choose to put into the world makes you who you are.

ehh kinda I suppose, personally I believe it's almost entirely nurture but I have to debate on the side of nature for the project

Making a tulpa is simply re-enacting that "building".

There's so many guides that I honestly don't know where to begin

By picking a recommended one and reading it through

Pick mine :p

6:39 AM

Actually, mine is not a good first pick

I'll rocommend JD's guide

The one on GitHub?

I saw it on .info

Oh I'm think of methos

I reccomend Tulpa's or Kiah's

Thanks blushes

Tulpa's guide is great

8:18 AM

Probably a little overwhelming for your average newbie

Overwhelming can be good though. I'd rather have newbies thinking than just catching a couple random beliefs and jumping into the whole thing too quick(Which a more streamlined guide can facilitate)

I quite honestly recommend stripping all symbolism and additional fluff from explanations, clearly explaining the base mechanism that functions.

I recommend people just sit still for an hour and talk to themselves. :?

You're implying that they we can do that.

2:09 PM

Besides, Nin9 won't sit still so why should I? (edited)

That's a great idea @Biscuit

I mean, I was half joking. ^^;

2:50 PM

I don't really recall reading into many guides. I just started talking to myself while listening to theta waves. All I did was expect that eventually it would work.

I ready plenty of guides, picked out what tips and tricks I like, three days later I was experiencing what I imagine was like mental birth. Point being, they're guides. Not rules. Just do what fits, be realistic, and have fun with it.

I wonder if all these guides actually help people. I should probably take the time to go through whatever is the most popular ones. :?

Imagine you asked for a guide on how to design a building

2:53 PM

or how to ride a bike

2:54 PM

and asked "how many days will it be before I learn to ride this bike?"

I'm gonna need a better example than how to ride a bike. Because it took me eleven and three fourths years to learn how to ride one.

that's broadly the point, it's a very vauge and arbitrary thing, more like a skill than a set of steps

However reading a list of tips alongside a guide on how to start riding a bike is more likely to help you start riding one than yourself attempting with no knowledge

2:57 PM

Using other peoples recommendations on the best guides to read to ride a bike is also important, so as not to waste your time or be misguided.

Well everything is different for each person

3:22 PM

Some people learn in different ways and understand as well.